I Didn't Know I Was Lonely!

 Hello, community. I'm Catherine Jura, a community health educator and the creator of this podcast. Hello, community. I created Hello Community in response to the current epidemic of social isolation and loneliness that is being reported across the United States and the world. One out of every two Americans says they are lonely.

And prolonged social isolation and loneliness can lead to physical and mental illness and early death. The hopeful news is that social connection and community are the healing effects for this epidemic. So through this podcast, I will be interviewing a diverse group of individuals to hear how they developed social connection and community in their lives, especially after some significant events might have happened, say a divorce, a death in the family, a new job, a move which can cause folks to have to start all over.

So my hope is that at the end of each podcast that you'll have some new ideas for yourself to develop social connections and build community. So today my guest is Andrew Barnes. Welcome. Thank you so much. The first time that I saw Andrew. I was watching Hope Lutheran of Troy's Sunday Service online, and Andrew had come to receive a donation check and he took some time to talk to the congregation about his work and the community they were building there.

And so I reached out to Andrew and said, I'm really curious about you and, um, what you're doing at your work. And then we got start talking about your personal life. And you shared, and I shared what the podcast was about, and you shared that you'd had some, a recent, pretty, pretty big revelation. So I was wonder, so of interest is that research shows that a lot of people often don't know they're lonely.

And so, and that was part of your story. Yes. So would you like to start, would you be willing to start with. What was going on for you before you got to that moment of, oh my goodness, I am feeling lonely. Lonely. Yeah. Yeah. Thank, first of all, thank, thank you for having me. Mm-hmm. Um, I was honored when we talked over the phone, um, and this is the first time I've ever done something like this talking about my personal feelings.

Normally I'm talking about the work I do, the work the community does, and how to be better involved in the community to make change. Talking about loneliness and isolation is definitely a different part of the realm, different part of the ball game. So yeah, I, I definitely will be talking about vulnerable points in my life that I most recently had to deal with.

Mm-hmm. So, leading up to, I would like to say the revelation that I had, um, it was just coasting living, but not living. And it creeps up on you. As I mentioned when we had our first interview, um, I started in human services when I was 20 years old. Mm. Um, I was going to college while interning, um, working with adults with comorbidity and, uh, mental illnesses and, uh, drug abuse disorder.

So at 20 years old, that's. I started to see a lot. Mm-hmm. Um, I've always wanted to work in the fields of psychology. I might have a bachelor's degree in psychology and a minor in sociology. Um, so I've always been attracted to the chaos of what brings about the worst in people and how I can make change.

Um, and as time progressed, the more I saw, the more I thought I was helping. I mean, in reality, I am. And. You see all the great works at community, but as you mentioned earlier, when we first started this interview, you said, a death in the family will will take its toll on you. And I did have a, uh, unfortunate, uh, my grandfather, um, passed away, um, when I was 23.

So I was three years in, um, in human services when it happened. And it really rocked my world because how do you, how do you walk into a building. With so many broken individuals and remain positive in change when internally and make change when internally you're not doing well. Mm. So in human services, from my personal experience and what I've learned is a mask that you put on can be extremely detrimental to yourself because you want to make change and you want to bring up about that positive atmosphere and your aura.

But what happens if internally you're not feeling that way? Mm-hmm. How can you make a change to one person or hundreds of people when you can't even see the light at the end of the tunnel when you first walk into the building? Mm-hmm. So I feel as though with years of progression of that, that mask, um, you lose parts of yourself, you lose.

You lose certain passions that you might have once had because you're just, you're, you're living, but you're not. And the revelation I had was actually in this building. Um, um, a wonderful gentleman asked me, you know, if I still write, and I was like, I haven't wrote poetry in years. And he asked me why, and I couldn't answer.

And I was like, I don't know. Um, and I took about 10 to 20 seconds to formulate an answer. After the conversation progressed and I said, I know why I haven't wr wrote anything, it's because I'm afraid of what's gonna be. Put pen to paper, the mask and the walls that you put on. For, for me personally, for seven years of being in human services, I was afraid of what's gonna come out.

And then he came up with a great idea. Just do it. Just see where it takes, see where it leads you. And I haven't yet done it. But I promised him, and I promised myself I would start writing again. So back in up a sec. So the, the day when you said to your close friend, I'm lonely, where did that happen in your story?

Very recent. Very recently? Yeah. And so were you. Were you having feelings, but you didn't have a name for them, and then one day you had a name for it? Precisely. Oh, interesting. Mm-hmm. Okay. Years, days, years, hours, seconds, minutes of not knowing what it was. Um hmm. I'd find myself getting home from work and just going on my phone and watching videos that I already know the outcome, so I, mm-hmm.

I believe that's the form of anxiety because you want to be comfortable. And my partner would always say, why do you keep watching the same things over and over? I go, 'cause I know the end. She's like, so you just, when you get home, you isolate yourself. I, I, I wouldn't call it isolation. She said, well, you're alone and you don't really answer anybody's calls or text and you watch the same YouTube videos over and over.

Now it's times that by seven years, that's what I've been doing for seven years when I get outta work. And in that moment, those words came outta your mouth to her. I am lonely. Mm-hmm. Internally. Oh, internally you said that I'm e intern. I'm eternally lonely. Yeah. Yeah. I have an amazing support, um, team, whether it be at work, my family, I have an amazing family.

I have an amazing partner. I have amazing friends. But working in human services, from my personal experience, I can say that it takes, it takes a part of you and it creeps up on you. You won't realize it until you sit down for a second and say, wow. What do I even enjoy anymore? You know? And that. Is leads to your isolating because you don't even know what you wanna do besides watch your videos at night.

You just were. Mm-hmm. And that is that, so that was social isolation for you and that led to the loneliness. Absolutely. So of interest, there are three kinds of loneliness. So you mentioned there's psychological loneliness, which is interpersonal loneliness. Like really, I'm really wanting to connect with.

Someone or some others. And then there's societal loneliness, like, where's my group? Where do I belong? And then there's existential loneliness. What's my purpose? So you talked about you have, sounds like you have interpersonal relationships and you have societal relationships groups. Yes. But is it the existential, you hit the nail right on the head.

Ah. And that's ringing up some emotion for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. You from my personal experience when, when you make a lot of change and then the next day it's just another trauma you experience or the people that you're serving experience it. It's like a never ending battle, and I think that never ending battle can also be brought in within you if you let it and of, unfortunately, I did.

Have. Hmm. Um, so I would say, I thought I knew my purpose, but the lines are a little blurred at the moment. So I think that's very, this is very hope helpful for our listeners because most people think about loneliness as. I, I want a best friend. I want, you know, an art group to belong to or some group to belong to, or groups or people to, but not so much like existential loneliness.

And so people looking at you would think you're doing just fine. Oh yeah. But inside not so much. Nope. You, you're totally correct. So then when you had that conversation with, um, the fellow here mm-hmm. Um. How did that tie into this topic? Um,

he posed questions that I haven't even been answering myself. Um, and this is just a random conversation, so I wonder would this revelation even happen if he didn't talk about the speech that I made and. The passion behind my words. And of course there's always passion behind my words when I talk about community involvement and making change in the lives of people.

Um, but when I noticed, and I think he did as well, when I'm saying these things, I'm also thinking like, do I still have this spark? Do I still have this passion? When I, when I lost so much, so many, so many passions that I once had, um, I can talk. Till I'm blue in the face about making change. But if, if I can't make the, the sacrifices and change for myself, then what's my purpose?

Is there a really passion behind that? These words? So when you said you had them, but you lost them, do you know what happened? Uh, I started working in human services. Oh, 19 years old was probably the happiest I've been. And what was happening then? Uh, Hudson Valley Community College writing poetry classes, um, working out, running, and then started in human services and everything stopped.

I'm not blaming human services, I'm just saying the work in which it entails can bring about the worst in people internally. Yep. So.

Help me a little bit with the shift went from focusing on yourself. Mm-hmm. Was that what was going on in Hudson Valley School? Exercise Poets free. Focusing on yourself. Um, and then when you started working, you started letting that stuff go? Absolutely. Is that what happened? Ah, absolutely. Okay. And was that because of the hours, because of the, the trauma you were seeing that you shared about and you just needed, you just isolated?

Yep. I would say what I've seen. What you've seen. Mm-hmm. And then that isolation, did that somehow become healing in its own way? Yes. But it also became what led to. Being realizing, holy macel, I'm lonely. It's a hundred percent a double-edged sword. That's how isolation in the beginning of working in the field that I work, was how I coped.

I thought it was great. You know, sit alone, watch YouTube, listen to podcasts. Um, not really talk to anybody. Stay up all hours of the night. Just numbing my brain with, mm-hmm. Videos. Um, so then, yeah, fast forward seven years of doing that and this is the outcome. Loneliness, isolation, isolation and loneliness.

But almost two. You have two. It sounds like you have like two worlds. You have some interpersonal relationships, some group relationships, um, but some inner loneliness. Yes, outer relationships, but inner something. Some things have been lost in her. Absolutely. And that's where your loneliness, and that's where your lack of pur the purpose ties in.

Yes. Lack ex the existential loneliness. Yes. So when you had the connection, um, for our listeners, we are recording this podcast at Hope Lutheran Church in case you're confused about where we are. Um, you were here to give a speech and Wayne is the music director. So you and Wayne had this connect afterwards.

Of loved what you said and somehow it gets to you talking about writing. Um, and then was that an organic GA meeting there? Yeah, it was a, a meeting I haven't had in a very long time since probably my college days, so I would say 20 20 19. Um, I used to, I had, I have really close relationships with my past psychologist, professors, psychology professors, um, and we used to have these conversations a lot.

Um, so I haven't had a conversation to look inwards like that in probably about five years. Oh, it was the looking inwards. Mm-hmm. So his questions brought you in and did that bring up? The purpose for you or not quite then? Um, no. We brought it up immediately. Did it? Yeah. Okay. Like it's crazy how you can just make a speech and then just one simple conversation can just rock your world and just be like, wait, is do I truly love doing this?

Is this really my purpose? Or do I gonna do this? Do I wanna do this for the rest of my life? Do I wanna self isolate for the rest of my life? Do I wanna not know how to deal with these emotions? And, and seeing what I see every day and seeing what I saw in the past, like, 'cause it's only going to, it's only gonna get worse.

Like human services, you can, you can change a family's life or a person's life. If there's always gonna be another person in another family that's gonna come right through those doors. Mm. Who might be, be in a worse situation and even a difficult case, maybe a more difficult case. Mm-hmm. So it's like an uphill battle.

Um, and it takes a special type of person to not isolate themselves and, and not to bring their work home. But unfortunately, I've realized that I'm not that special person to do it, not that type of person I should say. Yeah. That seems a little more. So you've had the realization that you've got, you've ex existential loneliness.

Not sure what your purpose is anymore. Conversation brings you back to my writing. Mm-hmm. My writing. Um. Um, and so do you feel like that was your first step towards moving out of the patterns that you've developed? Slowly, probably unconsciously, right? Yeah. To where you are today? Absolutely. Um, I'm talking more than I ever have.

Oh. Whether it be with peers, um, family members, um, my partner, um, I, I just, I just internalized everything for so long. Just, just who I, I. Was and who I am currently, but I'm just, I'm talking more ever since that conversation. Um, here I, I'm talking more and I'm, and it's a, it's a, it's a proud moment and it's a step in the way of trying to get out of this, this isolation and loneliness rut.

Wow. That is really, um, I, I think would inspiring for our listeners that it, it isn't always some big gigantic something. Some big gigantic turn left, turn right move, changed my life. A conversation, a, a conversation after something you did that really inspired him. And I was inspired watching you online.

That's why I reached out to you. So that part, that, that mask that you wear is very powerful. Yeah. Because it caused me to call you. Um, but your story, the story you told is still true about what you do at work. But what, what we're learning from each other is that there's been a cost for you and it's brought you to this place of loneliness.

So what are you thinking now, now that you've had, you've had the interaction, you're sharing more, which is gigantic. Is that making you feel less socially isolated? Um, yes. Uh, yeah, to an extent. A little bit. Little bit, yeah. Um, there will still be days where, um, if I have a rough day at work, I'll, I'll. Tell my partner, you don't come over for another like two hours.

I just need, I need time to just process it and try to process my emotions, um, towards it. Um, as I mentioned, I, I was emotionless for a very long time, um, prior to the realization that I was lonely. Mm-hmm. Um, so it's, it's basically a reworking of my emotions is the battle that I'm, you know. It's okay to feel sad where I've always just, nope, not gonna feel sad.

I refuse to do it. I'm refused. I've refused to feel sorry for myself. Um, and in turn it went the opposite way. And, um, now I'm finally trying to realize what it feels like to be sad. So it's, it's come, isolation definitely comes at an extreme cost. Um, and it creeps up on you and it'll break you. Um, just takes a simple conversation like that.

I was driving home, leaving here, and I'm just like, where am I going? What am I doing? What's my purpose? Am I even happy? What is happiness? What is sadness? You know? Wow. How moving? Wow. Um, so moving forward, you're talking more. Yes. And that's helping you feel less socially isolated. It's kind of you're, it's kind of tricky because you had on the surface relationships and groups, but behind that surface there was the loneliness.

Mm-hmm. So is the connecting now, now that you're connecting more on a feeling level, are those connections feeling more like connections? Yes. Ah, yes. Okay. Absolutely 110%. Um, still dealing with the anxiety, I'd say, um, of not knowing if I want to continue with this career. That's just, you wake up. I don't, I, I love making change and I love being a part of something bigger than myself.

Um, but at what cost? When you wake up and you're sitting like. I know I'm gonna make someone smile today, but am I gonna smile inside? Mm-hmm. It really does affect your work, your workload, and your, I I find myself zoning out just like my, is this really what I want to do? Like, yeah. So I would say, um, a, a career change might be in my future.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because if. When we're having this conversation, I'm assuming you can just tell it's all rooting. Mm-hmm. From, it's not my family, it's not my friends, it's not my partner, and I have my beliefs. It's not that. Mm-hmm. It all seems to be stemming from one thing, the purpose. Mm-hmm. The lack of purpose.

Mm-hmm. The lack of purpose as existential loneliness. Mm-hmm. So, um, if you were to leave our listeners with some fin, a final thought or two, what might that be? From what you've learned so far in your journey, which has been a rocketship of learning this, this, this conversation only happened like a couple weeks ago.

Mm-hmm. Um, what would, would you share with our listeners?

Take a step back and ask yourself the questions that you're most afraid to ask yourself. Mm. Because if you're going through the motions of life and you might think that what you're doing is amazing, um, and if it is amazing, that's great, but is it amazing for you? Mm, mm-hmm. Taking a step back, involving yourself in the, the, the tricky conversations that you don't want to have and that whether it needs to be with your yourself, talk about it with your family, your friends, your partner, um, your whatever religion.

Um, I think it's, if you don't have the tricky conversations, you, you're not gonna be living. You'll be just walking through, coasting through life for seven years, and I'm saying seven years because that's what's happened to me and I wouldn't wish it on anybody. It's a very, it's a very dangerous thing to just coast.

Are the tricky conversations. The ones that have emotion in them. Yes. Sharing. Sharing your emotions. So the connections were a little more superficial and now you're suggesting to our listeners that your conversations. Be of substance of what's going on. Internal substance. Internal substance, absolutely.

Yeah. Wow. Well, this has been very moving. Very, very moving. I am so grateful that you came and were willing to be so honest and so vulnerable. I, I knew you were, but you, you really have shared tremendously and. Our, I I know our listeners will be touched by what you've said and, and that is the hope of the podcast is that folks will come away with an idea or two of, or recognize, Hey, I am lonely.

Hey, your story is so powerful because you had an outer picture of a pretty good life and an inner picture of real pain. Yes. And. The power of a conversation. That's another thing I heard. And now you're on a different path. Yep. So, um, so thank you again. Oh, thank you for having me. You are so welcome. So to our listeners, if you'd like more information, um, or more episodes or links.

Take a look here at our Hello Community podcast. Um, if you're looking for some online support, Google Project UN Lonely, there is both a book written by a physician and there is a website, really beautiful, lots of art. Project on Lonely was started by a physician who saw the value of art and healing, um, healing, loneliness.

Mm-hmm. So, um, and if you feel that this podcast was helpful, please do share it with someone, and together let's support each other to lives of social connection and community. Until next time, the content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis, or treatment.